I have not personally left the church on an official babsis out of concers for the same. I do not intend to go through 'church court' or visit with any LDS leaders, I don't even know them personally.
I have considered organizing a group within Online ex-mormon communities for those who might have the same issues with leaving. A sort of "separation-union" that could explore legal action against the church should the process not be executed effectivly.
I'm not an Athiest, but a sort of Panendeist if you will, and my wife is something of a Unitarian type.
chalkers
· 2 years ago
**Update** I had a phone call this evening from the bishop. He was surprised to hear from us in the second letter. He said that the stake president had told him to date the letter 6th July. This is so that this would correlate with removing the name off the records with church headquarters in Utah.
It looks like when removing your name there is a two stage process (even though it should be one). First, get past local leadership and all the unnecessary visits that come with that and then second, get your request sent to the church headquarters. With these unnecessary visits you don't have to answer their questions regarding why you left or anything else, they have no authority over you.
The bishop stated that we should have received some thing straight from Salt Lake and would not go through any of the local leadership.
He is going to chase it up and have a response to what is going on within a week. Which is fair enough. I know the bishop personally and know of potential pressures he is under due to his responsibilities and duties to the church. Because of my personal connections to these people is one of the reasons I have not included any names.
He reaffirmed that as with the verbal confirmation on his visit that the way we had wrote our first letter we were no longer members and not subject to them. As stated in the post above, people have come to me saying that this hasn't been the case however, I don't think they have got past local leadership and stuck to their guns.
If you want a copy of the letter as a template which you can modify to you own personal suiting let me know.
I'll keep you posted with an update as and when it comes.
Washi
· 2 years ago
Hi,
As an 'inactive' LDS member I have experienced some of the strange consequences of leaving the Church. There is a tendency on the part of concerned church leadership to assume that either i) some spiritual defecit or sin is responsible or ii) that psychotaxis on the part of the leaving member can be ascribed. Or iii) both. Even when the truth may be more prosaic, like the person has chosen simply not to believe - participate anymore.
The LDS obviously needs to more efficiently realise it's obligations to UK and International law in adhering to privacy and human rights by quicker response.
US law is different and in the case of someone making such a request, as here, in the UK to remove names from records, this should be complied with in a short space of time. Additionally, names should also be removed from records in the US, ASAP.
It didn't post the full link. Bulletin boards is near the top and in the center.
Woodwose
· 2 years ago
It's not just Mormons. Try and get official recogbition from any church that you're declaring yourself out of the flock and you get nowhere. It's funny how strongly they demand positive proof that you're in (baptismal and confirmation certificates) but have no big "Void" stamp to show that you've left. Hope you have better luck than I did after 40 years of trying.
Tim
· 2 years ago
I have a good solution: LAWSUIT. File a nice big harassment lawsuit and throw in a restraining order for good measure.
Mike
· 2 years ago
Not to be a jerk, but why does it matter if your name is on their registry? It seems like an awful lot of fuss to have them acknowledge that you quit.
chalkers
· 2 years ago
Hi Mike, Well initially we asked for them to remove it in a letter - not much fuss really. They could have done it, they should have done it by law.
It looks like there is an awful fuss but it's totally on their part. As you can see they've been god-bothering when they should have just simply complied with our wishes.
Why can't they just do it simply without going around the houses and breaking information protection laws? That's were the issue lies.
I hope it clears it up.
Mike
· 2 years ago
I suppose I can see that. Thanks for the clarification.
chalkers
· 2 years ago
No probs :)
Glen
· 1 year ago
Hello, Andrew,
Whoa! You are far more patient and polite than I. Past round two, I would have said (if I have the British vernacular right) "piss off." (Being an American, my preferred initial word would have started with "F.") Past that, I would have asked, "Please give me the name of your attorney, so that I can give it to mine, so that they can discuss "harassment"? And, oh, do you have a card, too? So that I can give it to BBC, the Telegraph, and others? I so dislike inaccurate spellings. Don't you?"
I can almost guarantee this insufferable, bloody twit would have vanished, as if in a puff of smoke.
As I said, you are far more patient and polite than I. You may need a course in American Rude, First Level. For some people, nothing else works.
New Order Mormon
· 12 months ago
Wow Andrew, I have just come across this site via a link on an ex-mo site.
I am a mormon in your old stake who has seen through the bull s**t & who is currently trying to negotiate an exit, despite being married to a TMB. With us having children, I'm sure that you can appreciate how difficult & drawn out a process this may be.
We don't know each other personally but I heard about your exit, via a particularly pompous member of the Stake Presidency. I'm sure that you can guess which member that this was but if you need a clue, he was on both the last & the current presidencies.
Best wishes for the rest of your life, I am very envious of you!
LiberalGeeks
· 10 months ago
I have the same question as Mike. Why does it matter if you're on their books or not? I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness, and I don't have the desire to go through all the headaches of trying to remove myself from their membership list because I don't actually see any benefit to doing so. And in fact, if I ever decide to go into politics or something, it's useful to be able to claim that you at least belong to SOME sort of Christian religion.
And heck.....in the 0.00001% chance they're right, you might still be able to get into heaven on a technicality! Imagine the look of envy on everyone's faces when you stroll into heaven after your 'life of sin'! That's the cool thing about being an atheist....it's not a sin to 'game' the system. :-)
But seriously, judging by your letter, you knew they were going to give you a hard time, so I'm curious why you decided to try and do it anyway. Were you simply trying to make a point that the membership numbers of Mormons are inflated and not representative of their actual numbers? (That's a perfectly valid reason if so).
Matthew
· 10 months ago
Dude, just get over it and ignore them. If they harass you, file a restraining order. Not sure why you care if you're on their 'list' or whatever.
Jerry Clay
· 10 months ago
I had better luck than you,born into the LDS CHURCH(Utah). Received some education,stopped being religious. Moved,constantly harassed by missionairies tried to explain I was a member & helped a friend prepare for a mission and I could ask you a question and tell you what you would answer. Don't come back-they did-then the Bishop did,said it was their duty-told them,I want to resign,typed a letter,signed it, two weeks later,got a official response-You are no longer a member of the church of Latter Day Saints,blah blah blah-no more problem-no more hassle-Peace
Richard
· 9 months ago
Uhmmm... seriously, come on. How did you expect them to act?
You both seem like intelligent people, which means that you KNEW the type of response you'd get. You also knew that there is no harm in having your name on some registry from years ago that will never affect your life in any way. I'm sure your names are on a million lists from a million different memberships, agencies, groups, etc. I'm also sure this is the only one you've fought to get removed from. If you want to leave a church, you JUST LEAVE. That's what I did, and it's worked for me pretty well.
It's obvious you guys wanted to encourage this drama, so congrats. Mission accomplished.
It's the atheists like this that give the rest of us a bad name. You knew what you were doing, you knew what their response would be, and you set up this manipulative situation so that you could become a 'victim'.
Shame on both of you.
chalkers
· 9 months ago
@Richard. I knew they wouldn't stop pestering us if we didn't remove our names. That's the whole idea of removing our names.
If your name is on their membership records they'll be planning every opportunity to reactivate you in their PEC meetings. They don't seem to get you if you say you don't believe it any more. They think 'deep down they still know'.
I expected them to act in the way we requested in the letter. I.E remove our names in 30 days and have no visits calls etc - that's what I would expect. I only reported the event's that occurred - never meant to come across as a 'victim'.
I am glad you've had a better experience exiting if in fact you are really an ex-member - since you were quite hostile and paranoid in your comment - typical behavior of a religious zealot.
Richard
· 9 months ago
Oh no, not religious at all. Been out of the church for some time now. I am definitely not defending their actions at all. It just doesn't take much foresight to see how they are going to respond. Chruches are not known for letting one of their 'flock' get away easily. If you'd left quietly you might have gotten one or two phone calls or visits over the next few years. Instead your own actions have caused a self-fulfilling prophecy that pretty much GUARANTEED the church would work as hard as possible to get you back into the fold.
Honestly you seem like intelligent people. If you weren't intelligent I could have accepted that you were acting in ignorance. If you want us to accept you as being intellectually honest, then you also have to admit that you knew the church would respond like they did. If you didn't think they were the type to respond like that you would never have felt the need to be removed from their 'list'. OBVIOUSLY you already knew they were the type to try bring their past members back into the church, so their actions are no surprise to anyone. Either you knew and you set this situation up, or you have learned less about your church in all your years there than we have just by reading this article.
All Comments
I have considered organizing a group within Online ex-mormon communities for those who might have the same issues with leaving. A sort of "separation-union" that could explore legal action against the church should the process not be executed effectivly.
I'm not an Athiest, but a sort of Panendeist if you will, and my wife is something of a Unitarian type.
I had a phone call this evening from the bishop. He was surprised to hear from us in the second letter. He said that the stake president had told him to date the letter 6th July. This is so that this would correlate with removing the name off the records with church headquarters in Utah.
It looks like when removing your name there is a two stage process (even though it should be one). First, get past local leadership and all the unnecessary visits that come with that and then second, get your request sent to the church headquarters. With these unnecessary visits you don't have to answer their questions regarding why you left or anything else, they have no authority over you.
The bishop stated that we should have received some thing straight from Salt Lake and would not go through any of the local leadership.
He is going to chase it up and have a response to what is going on within a week. Which is fair enough. I know the bishop personally and know of potential pressures he is under due to his responsibilities and duties to the church. Because of my personal connections to these people is one of the reasons I have not included any names.
He reaffirmed that as with the verbal confirmation on his visit that the way we had wrote our first letter we were no longer members and not subject to them. As stated in the post above, people have come to me saying that this hasn't been the case however, I don't think they have got past local leadership and stuck to their guns.
If you want a copy of the letter as a template which you can modify to you own personal suiting let me know.
I'll keep you posted with an update as and when it comes.
As an 'inactive' LDS member I have experienced some of the strange consequences of leaving the Church. There is a tendency on the part of concerned church leadership to assume that either i) some spiritual defecit or sin is responsible or ii) that psychotaxis on the part of the leaving member can be ascribed. Or iii) both. Even when the truth may be more prosaic, like the person has chosen simply not to believe - participate anymore.
The LDS obviously needs to more efficiently realise it's obligations to UK and International law in adhering to privacy and human rights by quicker response.
US law is different and in the case of someone making such a request, as here, in the UK to remove names from records, this should be complied with in a short space of time. Additionally, names should also be removed from records in the US, ASAP.
My tuppence worth.
or the website it is
http://www.exmormon.org/
Best of luck :)
It's funny how strongly they demand positive proof that you're in (baptismal and confirmation certificates) but have no big "Void" stamp to show that you've left.
Hope you have better luck than I did after 40 years of trying.
Well initially we asked for them to remove it in a letter - not much fuss really. They could have done it, they should have done it by law.
It looks like there is an awful fuss but it's totally on their part. As you can see they've been god-bothering when they should have just simply complied with our wishes.
Why can't they just do it simply without going around the houses and breaking information protection laws? That's were the issue lies.
I hope it clears it up.
Whoa! You are far more patient and polite than I. Past round two, I would have said (if I have the British vernacular right) "piss off." (Being an American, my preferred initial word would have started with "F.") Past that, I would have asked, "Please give me the name of your attorney, so that I can give it to mine, so that they can discuss "harassment"? And, oh, do you have a card, too? So that I can give it to BBC, the Telegraph, and others? I so dislike inaccurate spellings. Don't you?"
I can almost guarantee this insufferable, bloody twit would have vanished, as if in a puff of smoke.
As I said, you are far more patient and polite than I. You may need a course in American Rude, First Level. For some people, nothing else works.
I am a mormon in your old stake who has seen through the bull s**t & who is currently trying to negotiate an exit, despite being married to a TMB. With us having children, I'm sure that you can appreciate how difficult & drawn out a process this may be.
We don't know each other personally but I heard about your exit, via a particularly pompous member of the Stake Presidency. I'm sure that you can guess which member that this was but if you need a clue, he was on both the last & the current presidencies.
Best wishes for the rest of your life, I am very envious of you!
And heck.....in the 0.00001% chance they're right, you might still be able to get into heaven on a technicality! Imagine the look of envy on everyone's faces when you stroll into heaven after your 'life of sin'! That's the cool thing about being an atheist....it's not a sin to 'game' the system. :-)
But seriously, judging by your letter, you knew they were going to give you a hard time, so I'm curious why you decided to try and do it anyway. Were you simply trying to make a point that the membership numbers of Mormons are inflated and not representative of their actual numbers? (That's a perfectly valid reason if so).
prepare for a mission and I could ask you a question and tell you what you would answer. Don't come back-they did-then the Bishop did,said it was their duty-told them,I want to resign,typed a letter,signed it, two weeks later,got a official response-You are no longer a member of the church of Latter Day Saints,blah blah blah-no more problem-no more hassle-Peace
You both seem like intelligent people, which means that you KNEW the type of response you'd get. You also knew that there is no harm in having your name on some registry from years ago that will never affect your life in any way. I'm sure your names are on a million lists from a million different memberships, agencies, groups, etc. I'm also sure this is the only one you've fought to get removed from. If you want to leave a church, you JUST LEAVE. That's what I did, and it's worked for me pretty well.
It's obvious you guys wanted to encourage this drama, so congrats. Mission accomplished.
It's the atheists like this that give the rest of us a bad name. You knew what you were doing, you knew what their response would be, and you set up this manipulative situation so that you could become a 'victim'.
Shame on both of you.
If your name is on their membership records they'll be planning every opportunity to reactivate you in their PEC meetings. They don't seem to get you if you say you don't believe it any more. They think 'deep down they still know'.
I expected them to act in the way we requested in the letter. I.E remove our names in 30 days and have no visits calls etc - that's what I would expect. I only reported the event's that occurred - never meant to come across as a 'victim'.
I am glad you've had a better experience exiting if in fact you are really an ex-member - since you were quite hostile and paranoid in your comment - typical behavior of a religious zealot.
Honestly you seem like intelligent people. If you weren't intelligent I could have accepted that you were acting in ignorance. If you want us to accept you as being intellectually honest, then you also have to admit that you knew the church would respond like they did. If you didn't think they were the type to respond like that you would never have felt the need to be removed from their 'list'. OBVIOUSLY you already knew they were the type to try bring their past members back into the church, so their actions are no surprise to anyone. Either you knew and you set this situation up, or you have learned less about your church in all your years there than we have just by reading this article.